Hebrews 1:8-14, Is the Son called God? Did Jesus create the heavens?
Below are summary notes for Part 2 of our study of chapter 1 of the Book of Hebrews. In the first episode we examined Hebrews 1:1-7. In this episode we examine Hebrews 1:8-14.
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We note that the word “saying”, or “he says”
which appears in English translations in Hebrews 1:8 is not in the Greek text. The Greek is only "of the Son".
The speaker of the words quoted
from Psalm 45 is not God, but the Psalmist. Adding “he says” or “saying” to Hebrews
1:8 makes it sound, incorrectly, that God is calling the Son, “God”. But the
speaker at this point is not God. The speaker is the Psalmist who shows honor to the Israelite/Judean king.
Hebrews 1:8-9 is a quote from Psalm 45, which is a
marriage hymn addressed to a king descended from David (perhaps Solomon, or Hezekiah?). The Davidic king has a God who has blessed
him (45:2) and anointed him (45:7). The Davidic king is lauded for his strength
and just rule (45:2-6). Part of the reason the Psalmist lauds the king is to convince
a princess, addressed in the latter part of the Psalm, that it will be worthwhile and a blessing to marry the righteous king.
Most English translations translate the word “God”
in the first part of the quote from Psalm 45 in Hebrews 1:8 as:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever”; that is, taking the word “God” as a vocative, or as a direct address, understanding that in some way the king in Psalm 45 was called “God”, and by extension, that Jesus the Son was called God.
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever”; that is, taking the word “God” as a vocative, or as a direct address, understanding that in some way the king in Psalm 45 was called “God”, and by extension, that Jesus the Son was called God.
But the “O” of “O God” is only interpretation.
Grammatically it is possible, even preferable, to translate Hebrews 1:8a as:
“Your throne is God forever and ever”,
or,
“God is your throne for ever and ever.”
That is, the word “God/Elohim” in the verse does not have to be
understood as a vocative, but as either the subject or predicate of the declaration.
Note an alternate translation given in the RSV:
“God is thy throne forever and ever”.
And, compare the JPS translation: “Thy throne given of God is for ever and ever”.
Since Hebrew has no present tense forms of “be”
(am, are, is), and neither does the Greek of either Psalm 45 or Hebrews 1:8
supply the present tense, there is ambiguity as to where “is” belongs in the
sentence. In the podcast, we note a couple grammatical reasons, and one
theological reason, that translating Psalm 45:6 and Hebrews 1:8 is preferable
as “Your throne is God”.
We also note some grammatical parallels to
interpreting Psalm 45:6, and therefor Hebrews 1:8 as “Your throne is God”:
Psalm 18:1 “Yahweh is my strength”. יְהוָה חִזְקִי
Psalm 18:2 “Yahweh is my rock and my fortress”
יְהוָה סַלְעִי וּמְצוּדָתִי
Psalm 16:5 “Yahweh is the portion of my
inheritance, and my cup” יְהוָה מְנָת-חֶלְקִי וְכוֹסִי
Speaking to Yahweh, Psalm 73:1-3” “…you are my
rock and my fortress.”
And especially, the very similar grammatical construction
in Psalm 73:26 “My portion is God forever”. חֶלְקִי
אֱלֹהִים לְעוֹלָם
If God can metaphorically be the anointed king’s cup or rock,
why can’t God metaphorically be the throne of the anointed king? This is metaphorical, poetic
language used to express a truth.
As the Psalmist says “God is my portion”, “God
is my Rock”, “God is my fortress”, “God is my refuge”, here the Psalmist says
of the anointed Davidic king, “God is your throne”. “Throne” represents the
kingly authority to rule. “Your authority as king is God”, “Your authority to
rule is God-ordained – forever”. God is your authority to rule forever.” The only
God-ordained eternal monarchy (throne) on the earth is the Davidic monarchy. God has
exalted a human descendant of David to His right hand. His kingdom will not end
because it is of God.
Another parallel, and perhaps what both the
Psalmist and writer of Hebrews are referring to, is 2 Sam. 7:13, “I will
establish the throne of his kingdom forever”וכֹנַנְתִּי אֶת-כִּסֵּא
מַמְלַכְתּוֹ עַד-עוֹלָם
The next verse, 2 Sam. 7:14 is “I will be his
Father. He will be my son”, which is also quoted in Hebrews 1 (verse 5)
The father designates who the son is that will
inherit the throne. God gives it to Jesus, and by extension, the Israelites ("Israel is my first-born son), and by even further extension, humanity (Jesus and Israel represent humanity before God).
It is God’s throne, or authority and power
to rule, that is eternal, and God has placed a human being (as God’s
representative) on that throne. This is what God planned for mankind
(Genesis 1:26-27) and to some extant is exactly what happened when Solomon
became king. David says, “Yehovah…has chosen Solomon my son to sit upon the throne
of the kingdom of Yehovah…He (Yehovah) said to me ‘I have chosen him (Solomon)
to be my son, and I will be his father” (1 Chron. 28:5-6). “Then
Solomon sat on the throne of Yehovah as king instead of David his
father” (1 Chron. 29:23).
Saying "God is my rock" portrays strength or stability.
Saying "God is my rock" portrays strength or stability.
Saying "God is your throne" communicates:
1) divinely given authority, and 2) the eternality of the rule.
We also note that the king being spoken of in
Hebrews 1:8, has a God, as seen in Hebrews 1:9. It is absurd to think that the king
is God, and because this king-God loved righteousness and hated lawlessness,
another God, the king-God's God, anointed the king-God with the oil of gladness beyond his fellows
(presumably other Gods?). How many "God/gods" would this make in Hebrews 1:9? A minimum of 4 (God, the king-God, and the king's God-companions). The Bible states clearly that there is only one God.
So if this king has a God, the king is not that only God.
Hebrews 1:10-14
In Hebrews 1:10-12, the author quotes a portion of Psalm 102:25-26 which describes Yahweh Elohim as the creator of the heavens and earth. Even though God might roll up the heavens like a garment, and they be changed, God stays the same. He is eternal.
In Hebrews 1:10-12, the author quotes a portion of Psalm 102:25-26 which describes Yahweh Elohim as the creator of the heavens and earth. Even though God might roll up the heavens like a garment, and they be changed, God stays the same. He is eternal.
We ask the question why the author of Hebrews
quotes this Psalm about the eternality of Yahweh, the One who changes the heavens. We find the answer in Hebrews 1:13: “He”, that is, Yahweh Elohim who created the universe and doesn’t change,
has not said to an angel “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool
for your feet”. Indeed, as has been stated earlier, the eternal Creator God has said to a human being, "Sit at my right hand." It is a human being, Jesus the Son of God, at the eternal God’s
right hand.
The speaker of Psalm 102:25-26 (and quoted by Hebrews 1:10-12) is not Yahweh, but is the psalmist acknowledging who Yahweh is.
We also note that there is no way the author
of the book of Hebrews was a Trinitarian. No where does the word “God” mean the
Trinity in this book. The word “God” is always the one God, the Father. The
only disputed occurrence is Hebrews 1:8, but we’ve already shown another preferable
way to understand the quote from Psalm 45.
Trinitarian and “deity of Christ” claims hang grand theological claims on an obscure verse here and an obscure verse there
while ignoring the entire book. The one less clear verse in Hebrews 1:8 is
touted as one of the main evidences in the New Testament that Jesus is
God! If the author of Hebrews was a trinitarian, or believed in the “deity of
Christ”, do we really think he wouldn’t have explained so, not just implied it
in one or two ambiguous verses, and then totally contradicted himself in so
many other verses that state explicitly that Jesus is a man, now exalted to
God’s right hand? No where else in the Book of Hebrews does the author say that
Jesus is God.
“Deity of Christ” claims consistently create
their theology on a less clear verse here or there, and ignore many, many clear
Scriptures that directly contradict their claims.
Comments
Even though the Hebrew lacks the vocative form (“O God”) both the LXX and NT Greek nonetheless confirm the almost universal vocative reading, i.e., “Your throne, O God.” This is further supported by the fact that the accentuation in the Hebrew points to a pause between the words “throne” and “God.” And as far as I know the textual tradition of the text in both Hebrew and Greek took “God” as direct address.
Lastly, if the writer meant “your throne is God” the Greek conjunction DE (“But about” or “unto”) loses its antithetical meaning, i.e., such a statement could also be made to apply to the angels.
For more see Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics; Harris, Jesus as God.
Correct me if I’m wrong but you seem to be saying Heb. 1:10-12 is referring to Yahweh, the Father..?
This ancient Socinian interpretation destroys the overall theme by the write of the contrast between the Son and angels. For example, note the first contrast between the Son and angels in v.7 “And” and v.8 “But.”
So to suddenly switch to the Father in contrast to the angels in vv10-12; v13 breaks the theme.
Of course God has put all creation under His Son. But the subject is “your enemies” not creation itself! Hence the wider context in Heb. 2, “all things” in creation are subject to the Son.
For more see my rebuttal of this interpretation by Bro. Kel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCryEyA5nnI
When we get to verse 10 it is essential to know that the LXX is being quoted from Psalm 102, and the LXX has a completely different sense than the Hebrew. The LXX has God answering the supplicant, addressing him as "lord" (Messiah). Thus these quotations refer to the Son. This was all worked out by F.F. Bruce in his commentary on Hebrews. "That our author understood this quotation from Psalm 102 as an utterance of God seems plain, from the way in which it is linked by the simple conjunction 'and' to the preceding quotation from Psalm 45. Both quotations fall under the same rubric. "But unto the Son He [God] said..."'
I referred to this in Appendix 3 of Jesus Was Not a Trinitarian. It was entirely reasonable that some unitarians, not having access to the Septuagint or the commentaries, were unable to deal with this passage.
When we get to verse 10 it is essential to know that the LXX is being quoted from Psalm 102, and the LXX has a completely different sense than the Hebrew. The LXX has God answering the supplicant, addressing him as "lord" (Messiah). Thus these quotations refer to the Son. This was all worked out by F.F. Bruce in his commentary on Hebrews. "That our author understood this quotation from Psalm 102 as an utterance of God seems plain, from the way in which it is linked by the simple conjunction 'and' to the preceding quotation from Psalm 45. Both quotations fall under the same rubric. "But unto the Son He [God] said..."'
I referred to this in Appendix 3 of Jesus Was Not a Trinitarian. It was entirely reasonable that some unitarians, not having access to the Septuagint or the commentaries, were unable to deal with this passage.
proper understanding of Verse 10 (and 13). This link explains how "legei" is mistakenly translated (or understood to be implied) as "He said" when God is not the speaker. The Greek "legei" can just as well be "she said" or "it said" ("it" being the law or scripture). This link takes you to the written argument for this understanding, but watch the video at the bottom of the page for a clear, and I think, convincing, detailed exposition. http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/TTD/verses/hebrews1_7.html
Jesus says he has authority over heaven and earth who can claim that except God alone?
Paul says Jesus's name is exalted above all why would any name besides God be exalted above all?
Paul says every knee in heaven and earth will bow to him yet only God has this power how can Jesus?
John says without the Word(Jesus) nothing would have been made yet Jesus is not God?
Jesus claims he was pre-existent in Johns's Gospel Paul also affirms this in his Gospel.
Paul says to be saved we need to believe in Jesus why would I need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
Who do the Angels of God worship and serve God alone so why do they also Worship and serve Jesus?
Why baptize in a name other than the Father?
Why bow down to anyone but God?
Any good Bible program can help. Here are some articles and podcasts that discuss "worship".
http://www.onegodreport.com/jesus_is_worshipped_he_must_be_god
First off, I am not a Modalist. I do not believe God SHIFTS BETWEEN the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He is all 3 at once, constantly.
Secondly, you have yet to refute my point about Hebrews 1:8-12. These verses make it plain that Christ didn’t merely have a passing role in creation but was fully responsible for making and fashioning the entire created realm:
"But about the Son he [the Father] says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness… In the beginning, O Lord [Jesus], you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.’" Hebrews 1:8, 10-12
The Father is praising his Son for being the Lord who personally created (and who is also actively sustaining) the heavens and the earth, and does so by quoting a Psalm (102:25-27) which speaks of Yahweh’s work in creating the cosmos. By attributing this particular Psalm to the Son’s role in creation the writer has identified Jesus as Yahweh, the God who created the entire universe!
Now let me show you many other examples of Jesus' divinity in scripture.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. *Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life* , and that life was the light of men… He was in the world, and *though the world was made through him* , the world did not recognize him… The *Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.* We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:1-4, 10, 14
"yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, *through whom all things came and through whom we live." * 1 Corinthians 8:6
"For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. *For by him all things were created:* things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; *all things were created by him and for him. He IS before all things, and in him all things hold together.* And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross." Colossians 1:13-20
"In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and *through whom he made the universe.* The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven." Hebrews 1:1-3
Continued in next comment...
In the Old Testament, Yahweh created all things *ALONE* he did not need a creature to help him.
"This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself," Isaiah 44:24
"He alone stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea." Job 9:8 NIV
The scriptures further teach that Yahweh is actively SUSTAINING all creation, and that he is the ONE who is keeping it altogether and guiding it to accomplish his purposes.
"Then the Levites, Jeshua, Kadmiel, Bani, Hashabneiah, Sherebiah, Hodiah, Shebaniah, and Pethahiah, said, ‘Stand up and bless the LORD your God from everlasting to everlasting. Blessed be your glorious name, which is exalted above all blessing and praise. You are the LORD, you alone. You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them; and you preserve all of them; and the host of heaven worships you.’" Nehemiah 9:5-6
"Because of him his messenger finds the way, and by his Word all things hold together." Sirach 43:26
So lets break down the logic here.
A) Yahweh is the ONLY ONE who made all creation.
B) Christ in his prehuman existence made all creation
C) Therefore, Christ is Yahweh God.
You cannot escape this conclusion.
Thanks for taking a look and the comments.
Some modalists/oneness don't believe that God is all three (Father/Son/Spirit) at the same time.
But allow me to suggest that your claim : "He is all 3 at once, constantly" is still modalism.
Trinitarianism should claim "THEY are all three at once, constantly."
Three persons are not "He". Three persons are "They".
Modalism is the belief that God SHIFTS BETWEEN the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Meaning sometimes He is the Father, sometimes he is the Son, and sometimes He is the Holy Spirit.
When you say "THEY are all 3 at once" that is where people begin to accuse us of being pagans that worship 3 Gods.
It is 1 singular God, whos divine essence is ALWAYS in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Genesis 1:26 "Let US make man in OUR image."
Your mind, your body, and your soul are all you. You do not shift between your mind, your body, and your spirit. Enough with this strawman.
Instead of making me defend that I'm a trinitarian and not a modalist, why don't you address the rest of what I said?
Thanks for the comments. I'm just more conservative than the average Trinitarian. Like modern woke folks, Trinitarians change pronouns. Three persons are not "he/him." Three persons are "they/them".
The group together is not a person, but an "it". Like modern Trinitarian apologist James White says, God is one "what". The ancients called it one "essence". The singular Trinitarian god is one it, not one person.
There is nowhere in the Bible where a prophet, or Jesus, or an apostle puts together the philosophical construction "There is one God, but the Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God, so there is three in one". That's later human "assemble a god" speculation.
As to some of the other claims you've made, feel free to scan my podcast/Youtube channel or this blog. For instance, Podcast #1 is on Gen. 1:26. There are lots of other resources that deal with the kind of claims you are making. I'll post one resource below.
In each case you are assuming a Trinitarian god. You even quoted one verse where the Apostle Paul says specifically that "for us there is one God, the Father."
I did the same kind of Bible reading in the past. I was just thinking this morning how many times I read John 17 when I was a Trinitarians and just sort of skipped over John 17:3.
Blessings.
https://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity.html
All I care to debate is what my conclusion was which was:
A) Yahweh is the ONLY ONE who made all creation.
B) Christ in his prehuman existence made all creation
C) Therefore, Christ is Yahweh God.
Take a look/have a listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMHqc6Av8og